TNL Features - Politics

Fascism, Stalinism, and North Korea’s Destiny

by Joshua Stanton

South Korean Warships

Nearly everything that’s being said about the pathology of the North Korean regime today is either false or already common knowledge. Brian R. Myers is a brilliant exception, one of the few who still informs us through his extraordinary command of two languages. He sets his fluency in Korean to work on the study of North Korean propaganda, often revealing truths that certain policy circles would rather not hear, as they suggest conclusions those circles would rather not reach. You will also note how I step gently in any criticisms of Myers’s arguments, because he’s also one of the best living writers of the English language on any topic, and if you doubt the damage that one Brian Myers’ fisking to can do to a person’s academic reputation, have a look at what’s left of left-wing historian Bruce Cumings after Myers finished with him. It’s the stuff of educational films shown to high school students for shock effect.

Recently, Myers has become particularly strident in his determination to purge (apologies) the term “Stalinist” from descriptions of contemporary North Korea. His latest piece in the Wall Street Journal speaks to a subject most of us would otherwise be tempted to dismiss — North Korea’s latest amendments to its constitution. Many of those amendments, after all, purport to guarantee individual rights that don’t exist in practice. To Myers, however, the new document’s shift away from emphasizing communism represents an open declaration that North Korea is, in Myers’s provocative phrasing, a “national-socialist” state:

These changes do not reflect a sudden shift in policy. Despite the world media’s tradition of referring to North Korea as a “hardline communist” or “Stalinist” state, it has never been anything of the sort. From its beginnings in 1945 the regime has espoused—to its subjects if not to its Soviet and Chinese aid-providers—a race-based, paranoid nationalism that has nothing to do with Marxism-Leninism. (This latter term was tellingly dropped from the constitution after the collapse of the East Bloc.) North Korea has always had less in common with the former Soviet Union than with the Japan of the 1930s, another “national defense state” in which a command economy was pursued not as an end in itself, but as a prerequisite for rapid armament.

North Korea is, in other words, a national-socialist country—one lacking imperialist ambitions, to be sure, but one that must still be seen on the far right and not the far left of the political spectrum.

Myers is correct to challenge the often trite reporting of North Korea, so much of which is written by journalists who appear to have little understanding of, or interest in, the North Korean people or the conditions in which they must somehow endure (the Washington Post’s Glenn Kessler and the New York Times’s Choe Sang-Hun come to mind). I do not think that Myers necessarily intended to draw moral equivalence to Nazi Germany, but if he did, neither system has an obvious advantage in terms of its depraved cruelty or the proportion of its subject population it murdered, though Nazi Germany is clearly responsible for far more deaths.

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Myers speaks an important truth when he argues that North Korea is both nationalist and racist, and those are truths that matter. Americans with a superficial understanding of North Korea see Kim Jong Il is a ridiculous, porcine anachronism, more an object of ridicule and pity than a legitimate threat. But this is prosaic nonsense: for a regime that has already practiced mass murder on North Koreans and indoctrinated its subjects to dehumanize non-Koreans, it’s hardly unthinkable that that regime would transfer nuclear weapons to terrorists who would use them against us. I do not follow Myers so far as to concede that North Korea was never Stalinist, but decades ago, North Korea’s Stalinism evolved into something unique — an eerie, cultish, theocratic form of totalitarianism that isn’t quite like anything that has ever existed, but which is at least as fascist as it is Stalinist.

There is some evidence that fascist regimes were one source of direct inspiration for Kim Jong Il. High-level defector Hwang Jang Yop, a principal author of the Juche ideology, suggests at Page 73 of the British journalist Jasper Becker’s “Rogue Regime” that Kim Jong Il drew inspiration from Hitler:

Hwang [Jang Yop] repeatedly claims that Kim Jong Il has been a keen student of Hitler and his methods. ‘He worshipped Germany’s Hitler from an early date and wanted to become such a dictator as Hitler,’ wrote Hwang in one article published in the monthly magazine Chosun. The Suryong doctrine certainly seems to be a replica of the Nazi Party’s Fueherprinzip, which transformed Hitler into the divine executor of Germany’s national destiny and hence the source of all laws. The rules of the Worker’s Party are almost the same as those listed in the Organization Book of the National Socialist Party of Germany.

One might dismiss Hwang as a disgruntled former employee. Still, the visual similarities between Nazi Germany’s mass calesthenics and North Korea’s wierdly beautiful and hideously abusive Arirang Festival are striking. Myers is probably also correct when he argues that the ethos of North Korea’s personality cult is more similar to Japan’s state Shinto than to Stalin’s Russia. After all, State Shinto was the system under which most of North Korea’s founders had grown up before Stalin’s tanks rolled south, with Kim Il Sung riding along. Even here, North Korea’s deification of its holy family has outdone the source of its inspiration. In what other fascist or communist regime would we see such a highly developed political caste system, or succession within a royal family?

It is the ferocious racism of the North Korean regime that may be most contrary to our preconceptions of a “communist” or “Stalinist” state. Myers, almost alone among North Korea watchers, gets this, perhaps because North Korea seldom emphasizes its racial views in its English-language external propaganda. The message still filters through. A November 2007 Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) editorial, for example, exalted Korea’s long history as a “resourceful homogenous (sic) nation” and decried the fact that, “due to outside forces … its purity is fading away in the southern half of Korea under the foreign cultural domination.”

A 2006 KCNA editorial condemned South Korea for permitting miscegenation:

Pyongyang, April 27 (KCNA) — A strange farce to hamstring the essential characters of the Korean nation and seek for “multiracial society” is now being held in south Korea. In this regard Rodong Sinmun today runs a signed commentary, which censures the farce as an unpardonable bid to negate the homogeneity of the nation, make south Korea multiracial and Americanize it. To deny the peculiarity and advantages of the homogeneous nation now that dominationism and colonialism are posing a threat to the destiny of weak nations is a treacherous act of weakening the spirit of the nation, the commentary says, and goes on: The south Korean pro-American traitorous forces advocating the theory of “multiracial society” are riffraffs who have not an iota of national soul, to say nothing of the elementary understanding of the view on the nation and social and historic development. [....]

The theory of “multiracial society” is a poison and anti-reunification logic aimed to emasculate the basic idea in the era of independent reunification. The anti-national logic is advocated in south Korea, contrary to the aspiration of the fellow countrymen. This is ascribable to the criminal attempt of the pro-American elements including the Grand National Party to make the north and the south different in lineages, block the June 15 era of reunification and seek the permanent division of the nation and the manipulation of the U.S. behind the scene. The commentary calls upon the people from all walks of life in south Korea to decisively reject the anti-national moves of the sycophantic traitorous forces to tarnish the lineage of the Korean nation and obliterate it, bereft of the Juche character and national character.

In May 2006, North Korean Major General Kim Yong-Chul haranged his South Korean counterparts for failing to safeguard Korea’s racial purity:

“Our nation has always considered its pure lineage to be of great importance — I am concerned that our singularity will disappear.” Instead of contradicting him, the South Korean delegation said such dilution of the bloodline was “but a drop of ink in the Han River,” adding this would cause no problems “if we all live together.” [....]

“Since time immemorial, our nation has been a land of abundant beauty. Not even one drop of ink must be allowed to fall into the Han River,” Kim thundered.

“Our history shows that we were able to maintain the purity of the Korean race even while living together with the Jurchen and the Manchurians of the region,” Han countered. “That may be true,” Kim pressed on, “but from Old Chosun” — the earliest Korean kingdom that ended in 108 BC and spanned from western Manchuria through the northwestern regions of the Korean Peninsula and according to legend started in 2333 BC ? “through the Middle Ages and the modern era, it is undeniable that we existed as one unified race.”

A 2005 KCNA editorial said this:

It claimed USFK influence over the last 60 years eroded the unique speech, writing, dress, food culture and lifestyle of the Korean people. “U.S. soldiers indulge in bestial sexual assaults against South Korean women, and have polluted the bloodlines of our race, which remained unbroken for 5,000 years, and sullied the purity of the race,” it said.

And that is not all.

The challenge of translation blurs the malice of North Korea’s racial ideology: the Korean word minjok translates to both “race” and “people,” leaving it to the reader to find his own meaning in the name, for example, of the North Korean propaganda web site Uriminjokkiri — meaning either “among our race only,” or “among our people only.” The racial element of North Korean ideology probably found easy acceptance among North Koreans, and plenty of South Koreans as well, including leaders of the left-wing, nationalist, and anti-American Uri Party, which was also South Korea’s ruling party from 2004 to 2007. No long-term foreign resident of South Korea would honestly suggest that xenophobia and racism are uniquely North Korean characteristics. Just ask Hines Ward.

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North Korea’s actions are far more telling, and chilling, than its words. The regime is sufficiently dedicated to preserving the purity of the Korean race that, according to the accounts of multiple defectors, it kills any children born to or carried by North Korean refugee women repatriated from China, and whose babies are presumably half Chinese.

To Myers, North Korea’s racial propaganda and its acquisition of nuclear weapons are claims to legitimacy and moral supremacy for a regime that hasn’t earned them through other means, such as by unifying Korea or providing for its people.

It is also possible to overstate the essential truth of Myers’s thesis, something he risks by trying to cleave pedantic distinctions between socialist statists of the “left” and the “right,” a distinction that, more often than not, is without much functional difference. Myers’s argument that North Korea is not — indeed, has never been — Stalinist appears to rest on assumptions that Stalin’s rule was marked by Marxist orthodoxy and the rejection of nationalism and racism, but that is not what a closer examination of Stalin’s rule tells us.

Kim Jong Il’s regime still shows some of its Stalinist genes, chiefly in its perfection of the police state and the cult of personality, the methods of its labor camp system, and its use of the nation’s food distribution system as a tool of class warfare. It is also true that Soviet and Soviet-trained officers established the DPRK on a Stalinist model of organization, and launched several Stalinist purges shortly after consolidating power. The Russian North Korea expert Andrei Lankov has described that history in his book, “North of the DMZ.”

The history of Stalinism is replete with examples of ethnic cleansing against Kalmyks, Ukrainians, Chechens, Ingush, and Koreans, to name just a few. Stalin was also a venomous anti-Semite whose final years were marked by the “revelations” of the so-called Doctors’ Plot, which, according to Khrushchev, was to lay the groundwork for the mass deportations of Soviet Jews. When the war ended, he cleansed the land east of the Oder of ethnic Germans. Stalin was a nationalist when nationalism served Stalin’s interests. During World War II, Stalin’s propaganda ceased to emphasize communist ideology, extolled the virtues of defending Mother Russia, and drew comparisons between Soviet troops and the defenders of Moscow in 1812. North Korea’s ideology was never internationalist, but then, even Stalin had “socialism in one country” when it suited him.

Stalin was not too opposed to fascism or Nazism to sign a non-aggression pact with Hitler or violate the Versailles Treaty by hosting the secret training of the first panzer units. When Stalin’s spies warned him in advance of Hiter’s 1941 invasion, Stalin’s unprintable reaction — followed by ordering one of his best spies shot for spreading disinformation — suggests that he sincerely believed in a more-or-less enduring accord with Hitler.

Stalin was no paragon of Marxist economics. His New Economic Policy was a retreat from state control over the means of production, just as North Korea was forced to recognize, to a degree and for a while, the dissolution of state control during the Great Famine. In both cases, state control was reestablished after there were fewer mouths to feed and matters stabilized again.

But then, the ideological parentage of Kim Jong Il’s regime is nearly as tangled as that of his own children. By some accounts, Stalin’s inspiration for the Great Purges of the 1930’s was Hitler’s Night of the Long Knives. Hitler was greatly influenced by the ideology of an Italian former communist newspaper editor who blended nationalism with socialism and found a place for an obedient church in his state (a role that even Kim Jong Il allows). In the 1930’s, Josef Goebbels helped Hitler steal votes from the communists by incorporating May Day, state control of factories, and class envy into Nazi ideology. In a 1925 open letter to German communists, Goebbels wrote, “[W]e are fighting one another although we are not really enemies.” On his accession to power, Hitler abolished labor unions, but then, so did Stalin in every practical sense.

Stalinism, Nazim, fascism, Ba’athism, State Shinto, and Juche all had common genes, characteristics, and principles: the devaluation of individual life and dignity; the supremacy of the state and its military; the deification of an infallible dictator (and all gods are jealous); extreme nationalism; the persecution of ethnic minorities; and as much state control over the economy as current conditions can tolerate. And who is to say what Stalinism might have become without Khruschev? If Yakov, Vassily, or Svetlana had had the wherewithal to continue their father’s reign, might the Soviet Union have evolved in the same way that North Korea did? The unfolding failure of socialist economics suggests few other ways to maintain national cohesion. What else might Dear Leader Vassily Stalin have had to fall back on?

Myers ends with an admonition to those who impute rationalism upon Kim Jong Il and who continue to believe that he can be forced to negotiate his own disarmament:

Kim is aware that he cannot disarm without committing political suicide. This unfortunately means that negotiations with Pyongyang, whether bilateral or multilateral, can never bear the sort of fruit that détente with the Soviet Union did.

Some in Washington have suggested that negotiations can nonetheless be an effective adjunct to sanctions, the hope being that the U.S. can chatter away with the Kim regime until it finally collapses from a lack of funds. But if North Korea is not a communist country, there is no reason to expect it to fold like one. Party propaganda derides the old Soviet Union for nothing so much as the way it went down “without a shot.” With the Dear Leader’s uranium centrifuges spinning every hour, running out the clock seems a very dangerous strategy indeed.

If Myers is right about this — and I believe he is — then what are our alternatives to those we know won’t work? Not even sanctions will likely persuade Kim Jong Il to give up his nuclear programs voluntarily and verifiably, although I am not yet ready to abandon the idea that concentrated and sustained sanctions could fracture and collapse the regime.

Unfortunately, the sanctions we’ve imposed thus far may be a good start, but they’re probably calculated to pressure the regime, not to collapse it. There are many more sanctions we could impose but haven’t, probably because the current political leadership doesn’t understand that voluntary disarmament is anathema to the regime. So what are the alternatives? Myers had already told us why we can’t accept North Korea’s nuclear status and the likelihood that it will proliferate to terrorists. Few suggest that we should invade and accept tens of thousands of deaths as a likely consequence, along with reviving the regime’s decaying claims to legitimacy. The politically expedient course would be to continue a less-than-whole-hearted and perishable sanctions effort while hoping, until eternity, for the least-bad outcome.

What remains is for us to catalyze change within North Korea by combining economic constriction with political subversion. Myers appears to discount the amount of discontent within North Korea, but clearly, many North Koreans are discontented: look at the rising number of North Koreans who are voting against Kim Jong Il with their feet, or their growing willingness to express their discontent with hunger, corruption, and restrictions on market trading. What North Koreans still lack is a coherent idea of what kind of system would replace the existing one, or how its accession would change their lives in a way worth the risk of their lives. America could do much to advance that process by increasing its funding and technical assistance to North Korean broadcasters in exile, and to organizations of dissidents in exile who are trying to expand their reach back into their homeland. Once North Koreans understand how much better their lives could be under a reunified, democratic Korean government, North Korea’s change to something more transparent and less menacing will be inevitable.

Joshua Stanton is an attorney in Washington, D.C.

TNL
  • ". . . have a look at what’s left of left-wing historian Bruce Cumings after Myers finished with him."

    How could I resist? But the link is not working.
  • reiver97
    You almost had me until you started with this nonsense...
    "North Korea’s actions are far more telling, and chilling, than its words. The regime is sufficiently dedicated to preserving the purity of the Korean race that, according to the accounts of multiple defectors, it kills any children born to or carried by North Korean refugee women repatriated from China, and whose babies are presumably half Chinese."

    This is demonstrably untrue with not a shred of evidence provided to back it up.

    Foreigners, including Americans, who have settled in the DPRK have married and raised families with Koreans. eg: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6...

    There are many things you can justifiably criticise the DPRK for, but telling such outrageous and offensive lies really doesnt help your arguement, especially when they are so clearly untrue.

    Indeed, wasn't it the Nazi propagandist Joseph Geobbels who advocated 'The Big Lie' as a means of discrediting enemies based upon misinterpretation, decontextualised accusation and outright fabrication? Now who is taking lessons from the Nazi's?
  • CSBadeaux
    Wow, that's pretty damning.

    This is demonstrably untrue with not a shred of evidence provided to back it up.

    Except, you know, the BBC article it links. Aside from that, evidence-free.

    Foreigners, including Americans, who have settled in the DPRK have married and raised families with Koreans.

    You cite as your example the tale of two men whose value to the Kims is inestimable and from that we should infer an entire national approach to interracial births? Well, ok. You have one logical error, Joshua has only second-hand, if well-documented, reports. How to resolve this? No real way. But maybe somewhere in all of this there are nuggets to suggest one side or the other is right, and the other wrong. Where to go, where to go...

    Oh, I know:

    A joint bid for asylum at the Soviet embassy in 1966 was rejected and the four [Americans who lived happy, peaceful lives with their Korean families] were forced to undergo intense re-education, which included learning North Korea's official Juche ideology.

    ...

    Within five weeks of the meeting, however, Charles Jenkins' story became known to the whole world when he left North Korea to be reunited with his wife in Japan.


    That's from your source, bub. Now, if you've paid any attention to the region, Jenkins's name will sound familiar. Let's zoom over to Wikipedia, which if nothing else is good for his side of the story:

    Information about Jenkins' status was unavailable outside North Korea for many years. Jenkins says he almost immediately regretted his defection. He says that he and three other U.S. servicemen, Larry Abshier, Jerry Parrish and James Dresnok, were quarantined in a one-room house with no running water until 1972, where they were made to study the Juche philosophy of Kim Il-sung. They were forced to memorize large passages of Kim's in Korean, and beaten frequently.

    ...

    In 1980, Jenkins was introduced to Hitomi Soga, a 21-year-old Japanese nurse who had been abducted by North Korean agents in 1978, along with her mother, during a search for Japanese citizens who could train future spies in Japanese language and culture. Soga's mother was never heard from again, and Soga was "given to" Jenkins. Soga and Jenkins fell in love, and thirty-eight days after meeting, they were married. They had two daughters, Roberta Mika Jenkins (born 1983) and Brinda Carol Jenkins (born 1985). In 1982, Jenkins appeared in the epic North Korean film Nameless Heroes, which provided the first evidence to the Western world that he was alive. The U.S. government did not publicly reveal this information until 1996.


    Well, golly, looks like they did have two lovely girls who weren't massacred, but even the fellow they treated as a propaganda victory got his whuppin' for years.

    So, all we have are the secondhand reports Mr. Stanton mentioned, against your ... inferential ... assertion that those reports "are so clearly untrue." At best, your definitive stance is not supported by the evidence. At worst, you are guilty of being terminally silly.

    The rest of your comment, Col. Godwin, is not germane here. It does, however, tell anyone reading this all they need to know about the Hermit Kingdom's apologists.
  • reiver97
    And your counter argument is what exactly?

    Where is the evidence that the DPRK kill mixed-nationality children?

    Where is the evidence that mixed nationality marriages are outlawed?

    What Jenkins did or said to save his ass and escape a lengthy prison sentence for desertion once he went back to the USA is neither here nor there, the fact is that non-Korean nationals have and do marry Koreans in the DPRK and raise children.

    "Dad I'm Back Home" - Second Hometown Visit of Japanese-Korean Women Makes Their Dreams Come True
    http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/029th_issue/98020...

    For all your bluster you havent done anything to provide evidence to support the outragrous, dangerous and offensive claims made in the article.

    From the Nazi's to the Neo-Cons it seems the concept of 'The Big Lie' lives on in the good ol' US of A.

    Iraqi WMDs anyone?
  • CSBadeaux
    First, please hit Reply.

    Second, my counter-argument is that (1) you don't even understand what Stanton said; (2) if you did, you wouldn't ask the questions you're asking here; (3) your conclusions are based on a logical fallacy; and (4) your reductio ad Hitlerum says everything that needs to be said.

    Let's take that in order.

    Here is what Stanton said:

    according to the accounts of multiple defectors, it kills any children born to or carried by North Korean refugee women repatriated from China, and whose babies are presumably half Chinese.
    That is all that he said. His "outrageous claim" is that multiple defectors have alleged that the Kim regime murders children born to or carried by North Korean women repatriated from China.

    Read that sentence carefully. Note the article to which it links. Read the article. Pause and think.

    In response, you say, Oh no! Here are two Americans (not Chinese) who married Koreans (well, one married a Korean, one married a Japanese lady who'd been abducted from Japan), who did not, in fact, escape North Korea before they started birthin', and who've had children with those women, said children of whom have, at least so we infer, survived. (We have to infer, because though the one whose children are half-Korean had children, we're short on detail on where the grandkids might be, or whether those children live.)

    So! you assert, Shows Stanton! Hitler!

    Well, no. What it shows is precisely this: That North Korea allowed one of its great propaganda trophies to survive and breed with Korean women. Presumably, those children are still alive. What it does not show is that the statement "The regime is sufficiently dedicated to preserving the purity of the Korean race that, according to the accounts of multiple defectors, it kills any children born to or carried by North Korean refugee women repatriated from China, and whose babies are presumably half Chinese," or even the statement "[North Korea] kills any children born to or carried by North Korean refugee women repatriated from China, and whose babies are presumably half Chinese," is outrageous, false, or any synonym for these, with or without adverbial modification. Read the sentence again, and look for the words "American," "propaganda tools," or "we have forensic evidence."

    Finally, as noted, you are engaged in a logical fallacy, but I already explained that and it didn't sink in, so I see no need to repeat myself.

    P.S. Glad to see the Nazi stuff went away. How about we keep it that way?
  • reiver97
    So you ask us to accept, without evidence beyond heresay, that the DPRK kills the children of those who have relationships with citizens of its closest ally and benefactor, China, (and if they were born in China, would be Chinese citizens) but allows those born to citizens of it's historical and current enemies, Japan and the USA, to live relatively priviliged lives?

    Do you really beleive that? Do you really expect anyone to beleive that?

    Instead of trying to sideline your argument into semantics, why not just admit that this article is peddling a lie. A deeply unpleasant lie at that. A baseless accusation at best.

    There is ample evidence to contradict Stantons claims. To keep asserting the contrary just makes you look as foolish as it makes the author Stanton look like a liar and a fanatic.
  • CSBadeaux
    First, thank you for using the Reply link.

    Second, are you asking me whether I believe that a psychotic regime that starves its citizens to death would freely murder half-Han (as an aside, a China considers Han born anywhere to be Chinese citizens, but takes a somewhat more muddled approach to half-Han) infants in or ex utero, but wouldn't upset too badly one of its favorite propaganda tools? And if I expect anyone not dedicated to protecting those psychopaths to believe this?

    Yes. Yes, I do.

    I'll add some detail from Mr. Stanton. It has two advantages: First, it's verifiable. Second, it's supported by media reports, which is more than anything you've bothered with to date. Feel free to actually produce some responsive evidence to refute this monstrous lie. If you can find any of that "ample evidence," that is.

    Dresnok did not exactly "settle" in North Korea, and he did not marry a "racially pure" Korean. Dresnok was one of a handful of US Army
    deserters who defected to North Korea in the 1960's. The North Koreans
    used Dresnok as an enforcer against other defectors, who came to hate
    the regime for the way it tortured, indoctrinated, and isolated them. All of them lived among non-Korean abductees, some of whom were gifted to those deserters as wives. Dresnok was first given Romanian abductee Doina Bumbea as a wife -- a beautiful young woman who was kidnapped from Italy, where she lived with her husband. Doina eventually died in captivity, and a woman born to a North Korean mother and a Togolese diplomat was made his second wife.

    What this tells us is that these foreigners were kept isolated from North Korean society, and that racially impure Koreans were married off to other non-Koreans to preserve the purity of the bloodline. I suspect Dresnok's own son will have limited opportunities in his career and social life. The facts behind the commenter's asserted half-truths only prove my point.

    As for the statement questioning the reports of racial infanticide, we have no direct evidence to prove it because North Korea is the world's most closed society, which has, at various times, denied that it has concentration camps or human rights violations, and claimed that Kim Jong Il was born on Mount Paektu as a great star shone in the sky and flowers bloomed. It officially refers to itself as a "Democratic Peoples' Republic."

    As I stated in the article, and as numerous published sources besides the BBC have reported, multiple defectors allege that North Korea kills the born and unborn infants of North Korean women suspected of having half-Chinese babies. I stand by the statement and look forward to the day when first-hand confirmation is possible. Until then, any demand for direct evidence is nothing more than an intellectually lazy exercise in the denial of that which some would prefer not to believe.
    By the way, the term is "rhetoric," not "semantics." Thus, when I note that you've failed to prove any point you could possibly be trying to make, I am not playing with words, I am noting a profound logical error on your part.

    I'll wait for some ample evidence.
  • reiver97
    "North Korea kills the born and unborn infants of North Korean women suspected of having half-Chinese babies. I stand by the statement and look forward to the day when first-hand confirmation is possible."

    I think this disturbing statement says all that needs to be said about Stanton's twisted outlook.

    Anyone who 'looks forward' to seeing baseless allegations of racially motivated infanticide being an actual reality, just so they can slap themselves on the back and crow "i told you so", does not deserve any serious response.
  • CSBadeaux
    I think this disturbing statement says all that needs to be said about Stanton's twisted outlook.

    Presumably because you're incapable of citing any of that "ample evidence" to which you referred?

    Anyone who 'looks forward' to seeing baseless allegations of racially motivated infanticide being an actual reality, just so they can slap themselves on the back and crow "i told you so", does not deserve any serious response.

    I'm impressed with your mindreading talents, limited as they are to forensically identifying the intent behind internet comments. (They'd be more useful in identifying ample evidence that the North Koreans do not murder children.) Can you share with us the thoughts Mr. Stanton shared that allowed you to divine this?

    I'm still waiting on that ample evidence. Or indeed, a refutation of the links now piling up against your position.
  • MattR5
    I can't speak for Mr. Stanton, but I don't think he wants these things to be true. No sane mind would want to find out that countless childeren were murdered. However, just because you don't want something to be true doesn't make it any less real.

    As CS has stated, your inflammatory comments are not helping. Show us some evidence. Are defector reports 100% credible? No, but they are somewhere to start. You have showed nothing.

    What about the people here:
    http://freekorea.us/camps/14-18

    and here

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yodok_concentratio...

    and here

    http://freekorea.us/camps/22

    What about the thousands that starve while the elite gorge themselves?

    No one is looking for an "I told you so" moment here. The truth hurts, but it is what it is.
  • slim09
    reiver97 needs to follow the links and stop repeatedly comparing apples to oranges. These infanticide accounts did not spring from Joshua Stanton's imagination, but have come up frequently in testimony from refugees who endure a living hell in China rather than go back to worse in north Korea. Last time I checked Human Rights Watch was not a neocon organization.
  • 0leo
    Thank you, i learned alot reading this.
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